Impact Goal Rush
Impact Goal Rush

Episode 18 · 8 months ago

Zenna Hopson - Chalk and talk teaching is not fit for how we learn and live anymore

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Zenna Hopson, host of Third Millennium Education podcast, is former Head of Ofsted and EY entrepreneur of the year. In this episode, Zenna share the 3 key problems of the current education system, what is working and what needs to really change.

There is still so much passion foreducation that we cannot take our eye off the ball, that we need to change itand not be afraid to change it and not be afraid to admit that it's wrong thatteachers are our most valuable assets. These are brilliant individuals, aloandwelcome to the IMFACT Gorush podcast. This is the podcast for impactentrepreneus. This podcast aims to implify the voices of impactcontropreners addressing the United Nations Global Goes Ek, the sustainabledevelopment ghost listening to fellow impact entrepreneus on their journey inthis new Gol rush of making a bigger impact, get in spite to learn how toentropronership. You can grow your impact to make the world a better place,leave a legacy and live he more meaningful life. AMEHOS winten. In thisepisode we talkd to Zenna Hopson about transforming the education system. ThenI is a EI entrepreneur of the year and she's, also formarhead of ofstep, whichis a government Enjo in the UK responsible for inspecting educationalinstitutions and and maintaining education standards, so Listenin, ifyou're interested to find how you can take the current education system tothe next level. If you've missed the previous episode episode numberseventeen, we had just burs tinhousand of Orroboro start books where he talkedabout helping cus and executives in De Journey to its a susteemer circulareconomy. It's a fascinating interviewas yhe, where he talks about concreteexamples of how his help transform some of the businesses hes working withwelcome to the impact Gorush Zenna hopson welcome. Could you give us quickintro of what you do and you know what you up to these days, I'm delighted tosay I'm up to all sorts of things. My job title, I think, is Cheaf Juggler,so I have the privilege of working in a number of organizations in thecommercial sector, the charisical...

...sector and the public sector, and I su'pose. I do a lot of leadership, animpact, and I do quite a lot of change and I do quite a lot around diversityand inclusion, with a variety of different organizations and my rolewith them changes in each organization from consultant to noninsectivedirector to adviser, I'm not facting, one of t, I am actually an employee, sothere are even straight employee regulation and my background has beendoing stuff such a big government stuff right down to small startup stuff. So Ihave a really ECOLECTIC Portfolo as you're talking about education, sort ofsome of my credibility points there that I've had the opportunity ofleading a managing of people oferral unit, which is where young people areoften end up if they've been permanently excluded from mainstreamschool, and that was back in the last century. I've worked alot with disadvantage young people either looking at ways to prevent themsort of following the path that life often sets them as such a jectury. Sohow to avoid getting involved in trouble with the police, how tobuild up your mental health and your mental ot being and your resilients?How to reengage with education, if you're disengaged and through the workthat I dell on the ground and the organizations that I've led and the sort of beginning of aportfiure career, I also spent sixyear five years as a chair person of Oted,which is school's inspection, an regulation service as well as doingsome other big government stuff so sort of background by I started life at theresidential social work. Well, so am I right in thinking you actu you actuallythe EUI Entrepreneu of the year. At one point, I was indeed for a business thatalso have real social impact that was...

...two husand and o two thousand so andEmilanian. I was very privileged to in that ward for the SAR things not forthe entire country. So could you share witverse? Why should businesses andemployees? Why should entrepreneurs be more impact driven? Ithink I think actually the reality is. Entrepreneurs tend to be very impact,driven because the thing that likes to get out of bed and keep beating yourhead against the wall of trying to solve a problem that Youyou'veidentified is that you want to see the impact, whether that's setting up a newbusiness that is going to transform the way that we pay for stuff or whetherit's a new business that is going to have real social outcomes, and so Ithink they are as a focus in Patrov, and they are interested in the changethat they can make not just the money that they can make. Trow your careeryou've been champoeing changes in the education system. What is some of theissues that we currently face with the current education system? I think youcould probably boil them down into very big handfuls of stuff, and the firstbig handful of stuff is credibility. I think the second big handful of stuffis relevant and the third big handful of stuff is around accessibility anddeliveryng so structure and in those those big handfuls that the credibilityone is that we broadly tell all our young people are going through, and I'mtalking about the UK here, but actually I will use the UK language inparticularly language of the educational system in England, but itdoes actually apply globally as well, but just the words are different, so inEngland we say to children: You've got to get five cfes, including English andMirth. You will go on and you will get your a levels and you will do a degreeand your career, your working life will be set, and that is incredible. Onlyfifty percent of our young people- and...

...it's only recent in two thousand nnineteen, with Januinely hit fifty percent of our young people go on touniversity in that lineal way. The second real credibility point is, evenif you do that it doesn't result in meaningful employment that actuallymakes you want to get out of bed every day, and then I think the other issuethere is that four or fifty percent that don't dothat they are already leaving feeling like they failed because they was Tut,they were told there was one bench mark and they failed it and fought them morethan fifty percent of their parents didn't go down that road and actuallyhave ended up making some sort of success if their lives. So I don'tthink it's credible anymore. I think in terms of relevance. We have aneducation system that is still designed on the imparting. An acquisition ofknowledge, and if you take googles, wit mission and Google's mission, is theworld information in one excessing, the world's information in one click, andwhen you have that kind of power of information that is available actuallyjust imparting information, facts and knowledge doesn't necessarily help ayoung person understanding how you take information, how you take data and turnit into knowledge and then turn it into meaningful. musable information iswhere you need your skills, you need your skills around digital literacy andwhen you look at what employers look for you ask the as World Economic FormHouse for example. What do you look for when you employ people and employeescome back and they say they look for RESILIENC creativity, problem, solvingdigtal, leteracy, clearly and a whole suite o skills that we don't actuallyinvest in teaching, but I'm not sure that actually what we teach is relevantand then we get onto the how and thestructure whalst. I think there is alot that we all need to learn from how we wiarly failed young people who aredisadvantaged during this pandemic. I mean catastrophically, let them down.It has shown us that we don't need to...

...structure education in the same waythat we do and even where we have technology and classrooms. It is stillvery much teacher at the front thalk and talk very didactic and actually thestructure of the. How we we teach and learn is not fit for how we actuallywork and live, and so I think that that again is another issue. So those arethree pretty prall bruckets that give you probably in far too many words butmy sense of Whar. I think our current education system is a busted flash.What do you think has to happen? Then? If I you know, Imean there's plenty of issues there. That needs to be addressed, but youknow so. You actualy mentioned e the Wor conmic forum sharing how how someof the Skil sets that we need for for employment is not really it's not beingcaught in curing a sort of young adults and ar suffering from that. From aemploying your point of view, what do you think is needed you? How would theeducation system need to change for that to happen? So I think the firstthing to crack actually is at the moment we bat ar, if you likeour passport to your next stage of learning, all your employment, we basedit on an exam base system. Now we prove we don't actually need to do that inthis country because they teach rebest grades last time, but we need to find new ways of capturing recording andvalidating learning, because a linear exambe system is probably to lastcentury for us. So we need to identify different ways of assessing that. Whatyou now know what you are now able to do, the skills that you now have- and Ithink there are lots of different ways of doing that, and you can do thatthrough porpalures. You can do that through a digital learning, portflailure. You can do that through many...

...assessments, but just saying at thispoint in time which in AU cases at the end of year eleven and the end of yourthirteen and then in your degree you will do an exam and that will tell useverything we need to know. We need to work back from. How do we want to knowwhat you can do and the other thing we need to do is we need to work out whatwe actually want people to know, and I am passionate about the very basics wehave to make sure, and it is the disgrace, the not the percentage of ouryoung people who are at eleven do not meed the reading theliteracy themathematical capabilities that we would expect. So we have to get thatfundamental building, prot right and we talk about the three hours, reading,writing and math. We absolutely have to put in their digital leteracy. It iscompletely vital now, but we also need to start thinkingabout. How do we start to then capture your ability safely? Your ability tocreatively reason and we've done this in a curriculum already, if you look atthe earliers foundation, what we did in that education up until theae five isthat a suge amount of work went in to actually capturing actual ability andactual skills and a huge amount of ethort went into then how you trackthat. So we kind of know how to do this, and I think we need to really reviewour curriculum and we need to review. Then our endpoints, our credibilitypoints our assessment point, the replacement for our standard examsystem. What do I think that then gives employers it gives employers it givesuniversities, because I think there is an absolute need for universities,whether we need then to be focused in quite the waythat they are focused because they are none of themselves are Har to focusedon just information, but a lot, I'm moving away from that, but at any stage we need to identifyhow you're going to Mak and track these skills, and that then helps employersactually go yeah. You really can do...

...this and some of what you acquire, youdon't acquire through school youe acquire through life and this absolutesegregation between only what you learn in schools counts has to go becausethat's no longer how we live and the dividing line between this, and that isso blurred. As we've all seen since we've been working from home, it'sreally becoming to shorp relief. I think the next thing I really want tofocus on it is that at your age, day, team, if you want to accessany further government support, you get pretty much. One choice go touniversity and claim on student finance. Why isn't it young person finance thatyou can access finance to really have the opportunity to do some amazingvoluntary work to go into the creative industries and develop somethingpossibly even to you know, go into service, but we are so narrow to domore than apprenticeships and get you at higherlevels. We need to recreate what that offering is between sixteen and twentyone, because we are so narrow now that itexcludes a lot of young people and isn't giving us the workhouse. We wantokay. So what examples do you have or have you seen that that you think isworking or working well, for you know to address this. My best example of howyou can rethink a curriculum is the earlierst foundation. As I said, Ithink that when you look at a some of the new degrees, in fact, there are inbrand new universities that are focusing on to crees in a completelydifferent way. There are universities who are and now doing, almost projectbased degrees, so university of the southwest of England.They are running a degree that is an nentreprenerial degree where yourentire degree is developing a building a business, so you ere actually doingit and they have taken the framework...

...that you need so the academicaccountabilities, and they have plunged those into the practical experience youhave in building in developing your business. There are brand newuniversities that are opening where the entire basis of your learning iscollaborative problem, solving and project base learning, and I certainlythink we can start to see more of that in some schools and some specialistcolloges. What they've done is they takin the curriculum and to be fair? Wedid this a lot in primary school, three, the changes that were brought in byMichael Govein, two thousand and ten eleven, but you where you actually takethe topic that you need to cover and you put them into a practical project.So you look at. We are now going to build design and promote an ECO car andyou actually mat back. What is the mathematical learning you've got fromthat? What's Your Environmental Geographical Sciences that you'velearnt from that? What is your call physics that you are learning from thatthey maybe some chemistry in there? What's your English language, how e yougoing to market that? One of the maths that underpin that? So you actuallylook at I much more inclusive way of learning and you get young people to doit in teams and so that they are then getting team building skills. They havebeen thinking creatively, so it becomes much more a kin to how you will go onand function and they have to do all of their research because obviouslyhelping oung people to learn how to research and importantly, evaluatecritically evaluate the information that they get because there's no use inbeing one click away from complete, rubtish or fake news. If you don't knowhow to discern that, so I think there are lots of elements that we can bringtogether, and I see some schools really starting to do that. But we areconstrained by a very narrow modular based national curriculum, and I thinkwe need to take a look at that, but the solutions are certainly out there.That's really fascinating, so tena for...

...someone who is listening in they are probably you know, startingout their career. You know what advice would you have forthem? Several bits of advise. My first pieceof advice is no when you're getting in your own way and get out of it. Alsishumans have a tendency to get in our own way and we might do that by lookingat a situation or problem thinking. I can't do that. We might do that bygetting into very negative thinking. I'm not good enough. I've done it badly.I could have done it better. We're get into a lot of shuts and Aus withourselves. So my first advice to on our news recognize when you're getting inyour own way and you're doing that to yourself and get out of your own way,because unless you push yourself, unless you believe in your potential,unless you go vor it you are limiting yourself. So don't limit yourself. Ithink my second piece of advice is don't be afraid to take wisks and don'tbe afraid to fail. I fel more every day than I ever do see, but if I just workon what I know I can do safely, I won't have any fun. I won't learn and I won'texpand and I won't reach my potential. So I think the next thing is reallyabout taking risks and not being afraid of failure, and my final piece goesabsolutely along with that which takes me right back to the first piece, whichshould be kind to yourself. We live in a busy pat world where demands fly atyou. We live in a twenty four hour culture and an immediate response, andyou just need to be kind to yourself. So I think if I was going to go withthree quickly off the top of my head as you push me, Thos ul be my three well.There was such a sucing that also really powerful and ithink importantlessons dead at you just share. I think young people really need to do in eatand they will have the confidence to take on the world yeah. So one of thethings that I want to point our audience to is your podcast, which isthe Millenium Education podcast. Could you share a bit about? What's been ouryour big learnings from running the...

...podcast? Oh I've loved it. I decided to do a podcast because I metthis amazing young man womb. Something called a hot breakfast: it had neverented my head and your business inspired me to dothat, and thank you for all this hope. You'egiven in helping me get that off the ground and for me my motivation wasjust I'm really excited to hear people's ideas, and I am reallypassionate about education. I thought what an amazing way to hear people'sideas have a conversation and really focusing on some education issues andI've loved it. I my guest have been varied from young people. whoveexperienced the prison system after being excluded from school to FormoSexu estate, for education, Te to education, entrepreneurs and INNOVATIV.So I recommend you to listen to them all, because these are amazing people,and my big learning is that there is still so much passion for educationthat we cannot take our eye off the ball, that we need to change it and notbe afraid to change it and not tin afraid to admit that it's wrong thatteachers are our most valuable assets. These are bbrilliant individuals who,when given autonomy, respect and the trust to do their jobs, well inspiredchange and create an ennable, fantastic things for young people, and we have tostart and end with them, and maybe we need to do some stuff differentlyaround teacher training, but we have made so many accountsobe litabilitymeasures directly on them that many of them are just thinking. I think another learning is that people re some people really do stillhold on to and rate the current construct of our education and when youwan pick why it goes back to the quality of the teachers, and so Isuppose, a big learning for me is as much as we think about, and I'm reallyinterested in how we can use technology...

...to dryve learning and op and thedevopment of opportunities for young people, and I really think, there'smassis in that space. Actually in everybody, I've talked to the thingthat has made the difference to them has been the relationship with anotherperson, and we can never lose sight of the fact that it is these humaninteractions that really bring the change. Yeah couldn't agree more. Ithink that is so true. It's the teachers. They make the mix the bigdifference, yeah so Thena. Thank you very much for your sharing yourknowedge and Extis ar own education and sharing your time with us Pana delightso that was Jena Hobson of the Tut Millenium Education podcast. What'sbeen your biggest takeaway from this episode, let us know in the commonsection on our Social Media Pach if you haven't subscribed yet please dosubsquite. This wuld really help us grow our podcast, and if you can thinkof someone that would benefit from listening to this podcast, please doshare with them. In the next episode we have car, Prantor future planet. Don't love talk to us about the importance of buildingcommunities and he's got one of the biggest platforms and communities forsustainable professionals in the UK is a super, exciting episode and he'sactually in this process of creating and turning takingit to the next level, and so it's super fascinating yeah. It's a great platform that hisbuilding is really well connected in this space, and so how do you recommendyou check out the next episode so tune into next week's episode. Thank youvery much for listening into the end of this episode. We really appreciate you.This is the impact go rush. My name is Winton and I'll. See you in the nextepisode.

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